Transcribed by John Nold
Jini Palmer: Welcome to Town Hall, Seattle’s arts and culture series. On September 24th comedy podcast, “Hot Takes with Hot Dykes” went live on our forum stage. Hosts Clara Pluton and Val Nigro, Stand up comedians and real life lesbian lovers, dished out the sapphic dirt and queer fantasia interpreted through a modern lens. And now “Hot Takes with Hot Dykes”. Subscribe wherever you listen to your podcasts.
Clara Pluton: Hiiiiiiieeeee. Okay, so let’s start with some Patreon shout outs. Shout out to Amanda.
Val Nigro: Thank you Amanda.
CP: And shout out to Devon.
VN: And thank you Devon.
CP: Being a Patreon subscriber is a great gay way to show your support and tell us that you love us. If you have some extra change in your pocket and you want to give $5 for a shout out, $10 for a shout out and a shirt and a bonus monthly mini episode, and also at five you get a sticker too.
VN: Helps us create more gay content and stay afloat.
CP: You literally have no idea how much it helps us stay afloat. Truly, truly, and you can learn more at.
CP: Okay, cool. That’s patreon.com/htwhd. And let’s start the show.
VN: Okay, so we’re very excited to present the live recording from our September 24th, 2019 show at Town Hall Seattle.
CP: This was a huge deal.
VN: So much fun!
CP: It was part of their – So much fun as part of their homecoming festival. And we were honored that they asked us to be a part of this epic celebration of them renovating the space and it was so much fun. Thank you to everyone who came.
VN: The audience was extremely fun and cute –
CP: In every way, shape or form. So maybe if you were there and you’re listening and you might hear yourself laugh. You might hear yourself choke. You might hear yourself spit.
VN: You might hear us shout out your astrological t-shirts. Who knows?
CP: Absolutely and so thanks to everyone who came. Thanks to Town Hall for asking us and enjoy the show.
[audience cheering, music……]
CP: We motherfucking did it y’all. Okay. Also, there’s some seats right here. Anyone wanna sit here, and it’s good there.
VN: And splash zone baby!
CP: Splash Zone, haha! If anyone’s going to be squirting tonight, it’s ya’ll! The audience squirts every time. That’s a squirt guarantee. Okay.
VN: Welcome to Hot Takes with Hot Dykes at Town Hall Seattle.
CP: I am Clara Pluton.
VN: And I’m Val Nigro.
CP: And we’re stand up comedians-
VN: Radio hosts-
CP: And real life lesbian lovers. Wow. Wow, wow, wow, wow, wow. Okay. So who here listens to the show? [applause] Yay. Have any of y’all never listened to an episode before? Yes. Thank you so much for coming!
VN: First timers.
CP: First timers. Well for y’all in the back, for anyone who doesn’t know or needs a little refresher, “Hot Takes with Hot Dykes” is a performance duo and a podcast that explores our queer Fantasia interpreted through a modern lens. We strive for our art to be self critical and publicly engage. We want to be pushing ourselves to reinterpret, reassess and reanalyze Dyke culture that has been left before us. Nothing exists in a vacuum. And y’all know, we love to process. So let’s get this show going!
VN: Also, real quick shout out. We brought a piece of our lesbian living room, obviously.
CP: Obviously yes, if you all can’t see it, we have our little son here, Planthony. We got a very cute, his siblings include Plantmola, a stretch, Plantabell,
VN: And Cathy.
CP: And Cathy because we wanted to imbue that plant with Capricorn energy cause it’s a money tree and I dont want to be fucking broke anymore. Okay, so let’s come on. Let’s get that cheddar running. We also have our queer Garfield whose apron says “Let’s Eat Out”. [sounds of revving up] Never got a case of the Mondays if he did good, you know what I’m saying.
VN: That was definitely the gayest one we could find.
CP: We found that Garfield in the Yucca Valley coming down off of going to the Integra Tron, it was a very lesbionic experience. Start to finish. So we start every episode with our highlights and our low lights from the week. And so biggest highlight this week is obviously Libra season.
CP: Happy Libra season.
VN: People have Libra airbrushed tee shirts in the audience. Okay, shout out to both of you.
CP: That is so sick.
VN: I’m a double Libra. So shout out. Yes.
CP: So that, Yeeees, double Libra.
VN: Is the entire audience Libras? Yay…..
CP: I love that. Val’s a double Libra. So that means that backstage in the green room, she was just like [inaudible]. Yes. Val grounds herself in her vanity and I find that to be inspired. So –
VN: Thank you.
CP: So much….I just feel like Libras are also really misunderstood. I am all, you know, everyone just thinks Libras are these hot jocks, but there’s more, you know? There’s just way more. It’s through your hotness you can reach Nirvana. And I just think that’s really neat. You know.
VN: What? No….spacing out.
CP: Many fine thinkers were Libras. Eminem, you know, the list goes on and the [laughs] And the big one, the big one. Also speaking of Eminem, yesterday was bisexual visibility day. Yes,
VN: Clara’s 100% positive that Eminem is bisexual. I feel we have actually like outed a lot of celebrities on our show.
CP: Totally. I’d say I’m Eminem is part of the bisexual trifecta. Eminem, Halsey and Eminem. It’s the big three. There’s more famous bisexuals, right?
VN: Where were we, who else were we just talking about that? I was shocked….
CP: Vanessa Hudgens. I think I made that up. Garfield…
VN: Garfield [laughs].
CP: Odie. Well, we….
VN: Garfield is gay for lasagna. Yes.
CP: Well, we love all of our, you know, bisexuals here, bisexuals in the audience, you know, if you know ,asexual, just sexual, as long as you’re not heterosexual, then we’re all good to go. Then we freaking love ya. And then –
VN: Okay. Other, alright other highlights and low lights.
CP: I’d say the biggest highlight from this week is that I went from fired to hired. Yes. So that’s very good.
VN: Clara lost one job and somehow gained eight.
CP: You know, it’s, cause I’m very tall and I tell people what I need and that can get you anything in this life, I’m saying. I walk with the confidence of a straight white man and then, but I’m not, so it’s a life hack that way.
VN: Do you, do you want to list your eight new jobs?
CP: Okay, I’m going to start. Okay, so nude art model, that’s one of my jobs. I’m very excited. I lied to get that one fully because they want you to have like yoga and dance experience. And I’m like, I have me experience.
VN: What do you mean yoga experience?
CP: Cause they wanted to be able to hold a pose for a really long time.
CP: And they want, they want you to be like flexible.
CP: And I’m very stiff but I’m here to have a good time. Yeah, I’m definitely, I’d say I’m in, I cramp during sex part of being stiff. So, but it’s fine. No,
VN: Their plan is to just drink a soylent and eat at a CBD edible.
CP: Yes. And I don’t know why that would be a problem. I think that’s enough.
VN: What are the others? We’re going to run out of time.
CP: Okay, really quick. Honestly, the time honored career tradition of working at a co-op, obviously…. So to do that. That’s exciting. And then…., Okay, I’m going to stop at my third job and I’m really stoked about this one. I’m going to be also a stand up comedian. First job podcast, second first job. You know these are like the jobs but then in the morning I need another part. But thanks for coming. You help me make money when you come. So that’s very good. And so my third job is I’m a wedding planners assistant’s assistant.
VN: I didn’t even know that was a job.
CP: So basically I’m just the muscle, you know what I mean? Where I’m just the jacked one on staff. She calls me and I run to Puyallup and I just lift barrels and make sure everything goes according to plan.
VN: Aren’t you going to have to cut the cake though? Thats hard….
CP: I’m very nervous.
VN: That’s kind of high presh.
CP: Yeah. I have one this Saturday and she’s like your main responsibilities that you have to cut the cake. And I don’t know, I have a very weak hand [laughs] and I’m very bad under pressure. So I just feel they might get in fistfuls and they’ll eat it out of my ass and it’ll be fine. It’s good. Just add extra frosting to it. No biggie.
VN: So those are all –
CP: Oh my god, also really quick. So we want to make more merch [andice]. Okay. Can we do like a poll?
VN: Quick straw poll.
CP: Quick straw poll. If we made merch that said, is that codependent, would you buy it?
CP: That’s funny. Right? Catchphrase could be cool.
VN: Lot of people who are holding hands. Same. Really.
CP: They’re holding their one raised hand together.
VN: Our other big highlight from the week is that last night we got to perform standup comedy in Spokane for the Washington state coalition against domestic violence annual conference. Yeah. Which is awesome. So pretty ideal audience of DV advocates who are mostly not men.
CP: Well also for the past three days they’ve been trapped in Spokane, you know what I mean? So all they want to do is laugh. They’re like, please free me because they’ve also, they all are domestic violence social workers. So they’ve been doing this really intense workshops and they’ve been having to be thrust against what they once thought was true and the psychological barriers that they need to take down so that they can be the best advocates they can be for victims of domestic violence. So they haven’t laughed in 72 hours. So we’re saying peepee poopoo and they’re losing their minds. But it’s very, very, very fun.
VN: And I’ve actually gotten to perform at it. This was my fourth year doing the show. So I was like you guys are my troops. You’re my veterans. This is my USO show and I am literally the Bob hope of DV advocates. And I think that is incredible.
CP: We never been to Spokane before.
CP: It was wacky for sure. I mean we had to go to Yakima two years ago and that was hard. I don’t remember if Ive even been to Yakima as a gay person or as a non-normal person as a freak, like a non white person. Cause they were not serving us at bars in Yakima. We went together and they were just like, Oh don’t see anyone. It’s like when I’m a lesbian but I go to The Cuff. You know what I mean? They’re like, it’s similar to that. I’m used to it, but I would like prefer to not have that happen.
VN: Yeah. But then in Spokane, okay. First of all, they have the electric lime scooters. So the first thing we did –
CP: Go in fast.
VN: Is we –
CP: You can hit 20 miles an hour on those.
CP: Dangerous. I’m a Sagittarius, but can I get a helmet? Jeez Louise.
VN: So we’re scooting around town at really high speeds yelling and stuff and then the coordinator of the actual conference literally saw us. We were like, I’m embarrassed. Like is that Clara and Val?
CP: And then when we were scooting to this diner called Bob’s diner diner, you know what I mean? Just classic Spokane diner because we wanted to get some breakfast and it was also the second we got off the bus cause we took a plane and then a shuttle to get to our hotel. We’re walking from downtown Spokane to our hotel and I’m wearing my freak clothes, which aren’t that weird cause we’re all gay here but I’m wearing denim that’s distressed in bleach. Know what I mean? Nothing too wacky. But this guy who looks like Doug Dimmadome, you know what I mean, just like 10 gallon cowboy hat, just really like, you know like he’s walking like he’s on a horse just galloping, taking up so much space.
VN: You could tell he was going to say something from a mile away.
CP: I’m like hold your breath. Maybe he won’t notice us. But as we walked past him, he’s like “gotta tell ya.” And I’m like, “No you don’t. [laughs] You definitely don’t.” He’s like “gotta tell ya, you know, I really like your style but it’s just so different.”
VN: No, you meant no, he said “those pants are really different.”
CP: And it’s like watch a show. You know what I mean? It’s like turn on TV, there’s gay people everywhere. We don’t have to be doing that. So everywhere we went people really want to chat and then I’m on my story like is everyone in Spokane just like it’s because we’re gay, it’s because we’re friendly because sometimes when you’re not on the Seattle freeze, people do just want to connect. So I do have some space for it, but not when it’s men.
VN: Ok then we’re sitting…
CP: That’s really the caveat.
VN: But then it like when we’re sitting waiting to be seated at the diner that was in a converted train caboose. Then this other guy comes up to us again from a mile away and is like, so are you two waiting to be seated in the caboose?
CP: I was like asshole? I say no, I’m here for the restaurant. Which he did not like.
VN: And then he got confused? Yeah.
CP: He got confused.
VN: I just thought that was sneaky cause it couldn’t be like, no, you –
CP: Then he also –
VN: Like we were, you know –
CP: No your caboose.
VN: But then Clara was like, we don’t really feel like talking right now.
CP: That’s only –
VN: And he just put his head down and moved away.
CP: That was only because he literally asked us, so obviously you’re not from here so why are you here? And I’m like, I don’t want to have a “Why are you here” conversation right now. I’m so hungry. You know what I mean? We were still waiting for our table and that just also …. Do I talk about the guy in Tacoma?
VN: The guy? Oh God.
CP: Well I honestly just walked into this one. Okay. I mean, you know what, I got a big mouth that’s always flapping. I get myself into trouble. Right? So we’re at this show in Tacoma and it’s an open mic before us and then we have the booked set. So anyone can do an open mic. That’s the worst part about standup comedy. That’s the worst part about standup is –
VN: Hands down.
CP: Anyone can fucking do it. It should be like getting a gun. You really should…. It should be harder than getting a gun.
VN: No it should be a lot harder than that.
CP: If you need to do stand up comedy, I need to know your intent, I need to know your preferences. I need to know are you an in-sell? Like I need to know some shit about you.
VN: Are you in therapy?
CP: Yes. So this guy is on stage and he’s not funny but he’s old and I know we’re supposed to be nice to old people but I forgot and he forgot and then he’s like, Oh I just had a stroke and I started clapping. [laughs] I did start to clap. So that’s my part.
VN: And then you did say, you did heckle to him, I want to have a stroke.
CP: And then he quick, quick, like a whip. He’s like, Oh well if you go back behind the alley after the show, I’ll show you a few strokes. And that’s the only time sexual harassment was warranted because that’s the only time I’ll ever say I was asking for it because I clapped at a man having a stroke, so –
VN: But I didn’t feel so bad because I mean the rest of his set was him just talking about jerking off even though it’s like –
CP: It was terrible in every way, shape or form. Okay, well this is like we said, it’s a really huge show. We’re so stoked to be able to be at Town Hall. That they asked us to do this even though all we’ve done so far is talk about jacking off and squirting. But you know what? It’s art because you paid for it. So that’s what it comes down to. But we want to talk about how we prepare for our big shows and this is – I don’t know if any of y’all are performers. Maybe you could glean something from this or if you have any things that you do when you’re really stressed before something huge besides just pacing, you could tell us and we can tell you. And we’ve really kind of honed it in to the seven ‘ations’. So Val, would you like to start?
CP: And let me talk about that one really quick because – So we had to be here at 5:30, so it’s 3:30 and I’m like Val, you gotta leave cause I need to masturbate because I’m like, maybe it’ll help. But it just made things worse.
CP: Cause I couldn’t [laughs] I was [laughs], I was so nervous that I was fully drying up. My body was seizing and I was like, I’m going to get the weave I’ve stuck inside myself and it’s going to have to get cauterized out of my vagina.
CP: It couldn’t. So masturbation but make sure you’re extra lubing. Word to the wise.
VN: Then there’s um, urination, defecation and AWOL nation as in listening to the songs, which I just learned about –
CP: Ok, you just learned about AWOL nation.
VN: I was like, I know I’ve heard of them, but I can’t think of a song by them. And Clara was like, Oh, it’s that song Sail. And I was like, no, that’s just how you and the girls talk. I need, I need more of a melody.
CP: Sail! Okay, it’s because rune. It’s because on the flight to Spokane, obviously when we’re all on a plane, only thought in my head is, I’m about to die on this plane. Every time I’m on a plane, I’m like, this is really –
VN: It was a really unusually small plane.
CP: I know it was just two, it was just two seats to a row and then 15 rows, on a 45 minute flight. So I’m on the plane every time I want to play and I’m like, I’m going to die. So this is like, gotta say goodbye to everyone I love in my brain. There is no way this is going to land. But then my other thought is, Oh my God, if I die this, they’re going to find my phone. And the last song I listened to before I died, it’s going to be circles by Post Malone. And that sucks. So I was like, I would rather the last song that I listened to before I die be “Sail” by AWOLnation because then they know that I was fucking chill. [laughs]
VN: And then I was trying to think of a dramatic, the song that I wanted to be found on the iPhone when I was, and I had drowned or whatever. And I, weirdly the one that popped into my head – This one’s a little bit more of a throwback, but, “The World I Know” by Collective Soul. Kind of dramatic.
CP: Okay. But now I’m going on a mind tangent, thinking about giant disasters cause it’s like what would we do not to make people scared of planes crashing? But it’s like I can’t fucking swim. Well what would we do? And they remind –
VN: Use the seat cushion. They’re a flotation device.
CP: I never listen when the flight attendants are talking about it!
VN: You’re listing in post.
CP: It’s too much. Honestly, if a plane goes down, I’m going on Instagram live, so I’m going to be like, “Selfie, bitch”.
VN: What up ya’ll? What up haters?
CP: Oh my God. Okay.
VN: So that’s how we prepared. So as you can tell, we were very prepared for the show.
CP: Very prepared. We feel ready. Oh my God. Do you want to read the extra from the book? The lesson?
VN: Oh my God. Yeah.
CP: Okay. One of our many lesbian books. Okay. So we went to a – the only way we can prepare is to go to the library. You know, y’all ever go to the library? Esp [ecially] [cheers] Yeah, we love the library.
VN: Do you know what that is?
CP: Especially the library at gay city. It’s amazing. It’s this massive wealth of like queer texts. It’s so important. So we found this book, “Lesbian Love Signs”. Hello, written by Aurora. Maybe it’s just a comment, might even be a person. It really could have been written by just a star pattern, which is gay.
VN: Copyright 1991.
CP: Yes. And so we want to read the Libra Sag [gitarius]one cause that’s us and we’re dating. And then you can borrow this after the show gets your fricking paws all over it, and then see what it says about you, and you know your guy. Could be fun. So I think it’s page 99. [?].
VN: I’m like, why would I not book for this?
CP: You know, you would think at least you would [inaudible].
VN: Oh my God. So the whole thing is like five paragraphs.
CP: Okay. Just pick a few sentences.
VN: Okay. The Libra, Saggi [tarius]. Oh God. Okay. Libra Saggitarius connection is a harmonious one. Libra, an air sign, is concerned with balance and an equal connection with their lovers. Sagittarius, a fire sign, seeks expansion of themselves and their individuality within the realm of the relationship by pursuing the ways of release with her partner using new thought forms. Okay, we’re gonna skip ahead a little bit. The Libra is in love with an ideal of love and tries to adjust to this belief. The Sagittarian can become self righteous and directness as a part of their communication array.
CP: It’s good that way.
VN: To the Libra, to the Libra. Tact and timing are very important.
CP: Too important.
VN: And they may find their Saggitarian partners tactlessness and blunt honesty, hard to deal with.
CP: Yes [laughs].
VN: The Saggitarian. The Saggitarian doesn’t tolerate hypocrisy very well and may see the Libra partner exhibiting diplomatic games and compromising truths for balance. When sanitary sees this, that their tendency is to blow and [laughs] and express their opinion vigorously. This sensitive Libra will then retreat. In spite of these differences, these two share many playful times. Both enjoy playing athletic and mental games.
The Libra finds her Saggitarian partner is a stimulating companion sexually, one who keeps them open to new possibilities for intimacy. The Saggitaria will appreciate their Libra partner’s ability to bring out the honesty of reality on a physical level. They will then learn new skills in experiencing their love other than assuming and making prejudgments. Their enjoyment of allowing and give each other freedom is naturally understood.
CP: There we go. I thought that was fun. So everyone, you can read yours later. Do it after the show.
VN: Really fun! Lesbian love science.
CP: It’s fun.
VN: Just change the pronouns and it really is for anyone. That’s the beauty of it.
CP: Truly. Okay, so moving on. As well in every episode we always have our rants and raves portion. That’s kind of when we try to pull something topical from the ether, an article we found, something in the zeitgeist that’s giving us a little bit of strife.
VN: so we had to bust out like a really major rant for a live show. Really special one.
VN: People are nervous.
CP: People are holding their breath.
VN: Um, and the rant is an article in the New York Times entitled “Women poop sometimes at work. Get over it.”
CP: Good. Yes.
VN: Anyone read this yet? Okay. This Is about poop shame.
CP: We got to talk about the elephant in the room and it’s pooping. Okay. So…. Cause I mean, I’ve spent all of today shitting, I’ve been so nervous. We’ve been traveling so you know you don’t always eat well when you’re on the road. So there’s this, that and the other. But this article really kind of like hones into this rather specific and unfortunate phenomenon which is women and non men essentially go to great lengths to make sure that no one knows that they’ve ever pooped. Like no one at work would – And it’s like, and even if you are telling your employer, your employee is like, Oh I gotta run to the bathroom. There are studies that they’re going to think less of you or have these negative conceptions of you.
VN: Yeah so examples are women, or you know, non men not….. Literally going to a different floor to use the bathroom when they have to poop. Wanting to not make any noise. Holding it if someone else is in the stall next to you. Using excessive amounts of freshening air sprays. So there’s no smell.
CP: And obviously this is definitely a hot button issue, right? Cause obviously we do all have to poop but poop’s gross. So how do you VNmerge those two things?
VN: Yeah, and I think that’s a really –
CP: Adept point.
VN: And I mean the most to me, the most harrowing part is that apparently non men suffer higher rates of irritable bowel syndrome and inflammatory bowel disease, and –
CP: I don’t even know about the second one. Inflammatory bowel disease. What’s that?
VN: Just what’s bad. They gave an example of this one woman who was, who tries to just poop really fast and they said that she quote unquote was pooping at the speed of pee.
CP: We should not be pooping at the speed of pee. For much longer.
VN: That’s not right.
CP: So this also, this raises a few questions. Audience please.
VN: Audience, please compose yourselves.
CP: I mean it’s jarring. Can you imagine? I mean sometimes our poop is pee if it’s like me and your dinner is white claw, you know. When I have dinner is white claw nights, then yes, my poop is pee. And I have to live that truth and it’s not right.
VN: So basically we have to kind of examine ourselves in our own lives and see how this played out. And for me I was thinking I really, I don’t like to have coworkers hear me poop.
CP: Yeah, Val was feeling triggered.
VN: And also. Or like hear me fart. I also always laugh uncontrollably when someone farts. Like just. As an adult, I am not funny.
CP: It’s funny. Well that also because even in the article it says that obviously who laughs at fart jokes and it goes, men, hard laughers, and then after men came lesbians. And I’m like, whoever the patient we deserve clearly duh and then women and then at the bottom under an enemy or dust was a gay men. The gay men apparently do not want to laugh at farts. Okay. They’re like, my butt is my butthole is-
VN: That’s the real Kin, that’s the real Kinsey scale.
CP: Yes. Absolutely. Well why do you think that pooping at work makes you so uncomfortable?
VN: I just think, you know, honestly, I grew up in a very repressed family.
CP: I met her parents, geez.
CP: Woo. I don’t get how, I don’t understand why Val is hot. Let me just say that. Nothing about her parents makes you want to frick. Her parents are like, they wear their trauma on their sleeves. Do you see what I’m saying? It’s intense.
VN: Yeah. And like I think, yeah, honestly, like my parents didn’t even call it pee and poop. They called it something weirder than that, which is weewee and pepee.
VN: Where did they get that from?
CP: I don’t know. I’ve been, they got it from repressed parent’s digest and they were like, there’s no way that we can have our children know what the actual biological terms for it is. Like feces and what’s pee? Urine. Urine.
CP: I love like, I have a town hall and I just said what’s pee so.
VN: Well what’s your game plan for –
CP: My game plan for it is, I feel really blessed that I’m European so, and I’m not just saying that. My parents are both French. I’m first generation American and I feel when you’re in [inaudible with French accent], you know, it’s just like you go down its streets and you talk about your, you know, you don’t worry deodorant. It’s kind of, it’s loose. You see boobs in shampoo commercials, you know what I mean? Where you’d like honk, honk, it’s not like that there. It’s like, so I, my parents, if anything were much too liberal with their fluids, maybe like to an other extent where they really wanted to key everyone in. It doesn’t look –
VN: What did that look like that they were liberal with their fluids.
CP: I like –
VN: Like what does that mean?
CP: I definitely threw up and, we keep the door open when we poop households.
CP: Do you know what I mean? Where it’s like, my poop is your poop is our poop. It is. It is. It is a collective poop.
VN: It’s very French.
CP: And then I also, how does it manifest in my workplace, it’s the opposite. I am always crossing my fingers. I got to drop a deuce at work cause that means you don’t have to fucking talk to customers anymore. Am I right? I’m like you’re paying me to poop baby.
VN: I mean.
CP: That’s reverse capitalism. The more you poop at work, Karl Marx grows stronger. So I’m always like, let’s hope I get a big stinker. That way I can just hide and be on my phone. I have texted my group chats so many times, literally verbatim. I’m prolapsing my asshole again at work cause I’ll just sit there and push and push. I hope something comes out.
VN: I also, I don’t think it helps that we just for some God unknown reason in this culture we don’t have bidets, which makes –
CP: Yes, thank you for saying this.
VN: No sense whatsoever. Is repressed and I think is part of the reason it’s not normalized to simply poop and then –
CP: I absolutely agree.
VN: Have your asshole like actually cleaned properly. Like, why –
CP: Toilet paper is a sham and we all need to say it. What is it doing? It’s literally you’re putting dirty paper up your dirty butt and you’re just mushing it around hoping that everything becomes fine. If we had the days, we, I think that we would all be able to poop a little bit easier at work cause then you could just go and then you could cleanse and everything would be a little bit easier. So I would say that is our game plan. And, Oh, what did I say here? Oh, that I actually don’t like when I, I have like four friends who are straight men, very few and far between.
CP: Would you say?
CP: How. I know because they all have lesbian hair and that’s why, you know what I mean? They have a little middle part and then it like floored far quads and they’re all like beta, you know what I mean? Beta Cox to the front 100%. I’m not friends with any alpha males, that’s for sure. It’s only room for one alpha. But I don’t like when you get too comfortable with a man and then they’re like, ah BRB I gotta go, you know shit. Then it’s like can we be back in the thirties? I don’t need to know this anymore. So that’s really what it comes down to. But then how do we quell poop shame. I`s this something that you know like cause the greater outside of talking about poop, cause it’s funny like the greater existential conversation is that people who aren’t men are genuinely injuring their lower intestines because they don’t want anyone to know that they’re pooping because what’s poop, right? It’s, Oh it’s, it’s dirty. We need to be seen as clean. We needed to be like women and non men need to be seen as these self cleaning sanitary units that don’t fart and don’t burp. And when we pee it’s just like a Mariah Carey song and that’s all it is. When we pee it’s like a ring back tone and there’s no pee and it’s always clear and that’s not fair. That’s a really intense standard and I’ve never worked in an office. I’dI’ve never worked anywhere corporate. I’ve been lucky to always work around, for the most part, queers and like-minded weirdos. But I have no idea what it would even look like to be like, Oh it was my job on the line cause I’m going to go shit. It’s scary.
VN: Yeah. I mean I just think it’s kind of horrifying that people that women were getting judged more for literally just saying that they had to go to the bathroom versus saying they had to go tend to some paperwork. Are you serious?
CP: And what’s the paperwork? Pooping.
VN: Yeah. But, I think, I mean I think one thing that’s good to do is if you have to go to the bathroom, just say that and don’t say that you have to go tend to some paperwork. I think that would be one way to help normalize it.
CP: And I also have friends who I know are folks in my life who are genuinely nervous poopers. Cause regardless of your gender orientation or what’s going on, it’s like we’ve been taught that poop is something that needs to be solitary. You have to be in solitary confinement when you do something that you need to be doing. Like what? Two times a day, three if you’re lucky. You know what I mean? It’s something that we all should feel comfort in doing when nature is calling. So I am like, if you need to be looking towards how we can be better at pooping, you know, treat it like masturbating. You know what I’m saying? Where it’s like put some Enya on,
VN: Enjoy it. Yeah.
CP: Enjoy it. Put on some Caribbean blue, light some incense, maybe a few candles. You know when it calls, just let it pass through you just like God and –
VN: At its own pace.
CP: At its own pace. Don’t push, you know, don’t hold it in cause it just makes me sad. And obviously shows the general spectrum of hell that we live in that we aren’t able to do a bodily function at the rate that we all need to because we’re worried that someone’s going to think less of us.
CP: Correct. So that’s got to stop now. It stops here and it stops now.
VN: Everyone get out there poop proudly, loudly.
CP: And also, like I said, you know, they say eyes are the window to our soul. Poop is really the window to our health. You know what I mean? It really all goes down in the BM.
VN: You can read it like the different shapes of different meanings.
CP: They do! So, you know, every once in a while, look back at it, make sure it’s all there, and then you flush.
VN: Bid it well before you flush.
CP: Yes, and then say good night and good luck down the drain.
VN: That was our rant.
VN: Okay. Rave time.
VN: Okay, so for a rave, we were inspired. So on our last episode, if some of you may have listened, we talked about gossip. That was a hot topic. And while we were discussing gossip, we also mentioned the book, the five agreements, which we’ve been very inspired by written by Don Miguel Ruiz. So we were thinking based on that, what are our gay agreements?
CP: Yes. Because we were like, okay so these, so the five agreements, it was four, but there’s also a secret bonus fifth and it’s written by this man Don Miguel Ruiz who’s a total tech spiritualist. And these are essentially four and five kind of rules. They kind of be the framework of how you’re living your life. It’s things that you can come back to . And his four are be impeccable with your word. So that’s kind of where we went to with the gossip where it’s like when you gossip and you’re not always impeccable when you’re talking about someone cause it’s making you feel good about yourself. We all got to work on that one. I got to work on that one. Don’t take anything personally. That’s one of my favorites. That’s one where I feel I always have to go to because you’re like, Oh, someone’s mad at me, my friend’s mad at me, they left me on red. What does that mean? Like we’re less important than we think we are. You know what I mean? So don’t take anything personally. Don’t make assumptions. That’s the third one. Always do your best. And then the fifth, which was written by his son, is be skeptical but learn to listen. So those are the five agreements within this one modality of spirituality. So we were inspired to write our own gay agreements for being gay and what those are all agreed upon. And you know, obviously everyone’s sole agreement, it should be to dismantle white supremacy, topple all hierarchy, use any privilege that you have to uplift others who aren’t yourself and for essentially you to be a vessel for other people’s healing and liberation. That’s everyone’s soul agreement. Right? Right, right. But then it’s like, what are the more minutia, what it all boils down to?
VN: Yeah. So let’s hop in. First agreement we came up with was listen first.
CP: Right. Listening is very important. I’ve struggled with listening sometimes. I’ll say it, I love to talk. That’s why I do this. Right? Let’s go blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Sometimes people talk and I’m just thinking about the next time I get to look at myself in the mirror and we can’t do that. Cause when we, – and it’s like all of these things kind of sound trite, but what it really comes down to is someone like me who is so combative and so argumentative, I have to remember to listen without expectation. Listen without already having in my brain what am I going to say next in the conversation? Or how I’m about to disagree with someone. So to even listen without a conversation happening, you know,? No offense, this might be crazy to some of you all, but the earth is alive. You know what I mean? They’re always talking. You’ll see what I’m saying. You know, go outside, forget your headphones. That’s when you know the biggest inspirations, epiphanys happen when you listen to the earth, do acid, listen to the earth. It’s nice in there.
VN: And to tune in and listen to yourself cause I feel that can get lost a lot of the time and again sometimes going for a long solitary walk can be helpful with that or meditating.
VN: Yeah kind of like tuning out all the background noise.
CP: Totally. So listening shouldn’t just be a vessel for responding. Listening is an act within itself that I feel like when you put yourself in that mindset of really trying to hear what someone or no-one or yourself is saying, then what you’re speaking won’t necessarily be as much of a projection. It’ll be less combative. Obviously those things have their purpose for so many reasons. Why a lot of the time if I just turned off my little mini me brain and listen to what was happening, things could be a little bit easier. The second one, and this is something that Val and I find to be very true, is that our second gay agreement is that you don’t owe anything to your family of origin. How about that? You don’t fucking owe anything to those people. If you’re friends with mom and pop and grandpa and pee-pa and uncle, that’s fucking sick and I really want to be invited to your Thanksgiving cause I’d like to know what that looks like. But if that isn’t true for you, essentially I feel we as gay people, we were all hatched from eggs and then if you’re reptilian parent overlords make sense to you, that’s really neat. But it doesn’t for a lot of people.
VN: Yeah, I do think there’s there’s a lot of pressure in the culture or this concept of family first, like do anything for your family. But then I feel like it can often be at the cost of one’s own personal self care. And I think that families don’t enjoy boundaries, I’ve noticed.
CP: No they do not. No they do not.
VN: And you know, you set one and they –
CP: They knock it down. Here I come
CP: Wreck it Ralph. Yeah. That’s what they say when you put up a boundary. Your family says Wreck it Ralph on the boundaries.
VN: But you know, I mean the thing with that too though is that boundaries make relationships stronger and deeper than they really go if you don’t have any. And if everyone’s kind of just doing and saying whatever. So I mean families, I think there’s actually greater potential for better relationships with family of origin if people can respect each other’s boundaries. But often boundaries are – Like in my family they’re not part of the family culture. Nobody – Like that’s not a word in anyone’s vocabulary. It’s kind of ….. and especially – I grew up in a family of physical abuse. So there’s a lot of lies and covering for each other and not developing a sense of self cause everybody has to kind of be loyal to this abusive family unit. So then later in life wanting to be like, Oh wait, I get to be my own person. And it’s hard because then the other members of the family are not necessarily there with you on that and happy for you about that. But I think that it’s important to not feel kind of overcome by the guilt or sense of obligation that we just have to do anything that makes our family of origin happy at our own personal expense.
CP: I agree with you completely. Yeah. I mean it’s so real and it’s so complex, but also we’re so lucky that we get to choose our own family. Its wow. Isn’t that the best part where I kind of like tuned into who makes me feel good seeing, heard, who do I evolve from? Whose boundaries do I respect and who’s respecting mine? Those are the people who are now de facto my family. Family can mean anything. Family is not DNA. And I think that if you are someone who does have parents who evolve with you and want to see you and watch you grow, that’s so incredible, that’s so sick, but uh, don’t know it. My dad’s like a weird, ex-con. So I’m like, I don’t fucking know you dude. So I’m like, dad, I got fired. He’s like, get a tick tock account. I’m like, it’s not helpful when you say this. It doesn’t help.
VN: Yeah. He also said you were being too gay on Instagram. Which is like –
CP: Oh yeah. Whenever I’m like dad, something bad happened cause I just like – Well also there’s an obligation right, where it’s technically I’m half of you cause you have sperm, which feels like a mistake, you know what I mean? And it’s like I really wished that why couldn’t I just have been sprung from plant matter, this is too much. But I’m like, Oh let’s look, let’s do little check-in. I’ll let you know how I’m doing every time. I’m like, Oh here’s a hardship. He’s like, it’s because you’re too gay on Instagram. He is like, if you just kind of gleaned over that part, I think that you could be a marvelous Mrs. Maisel by now. And I’m like, don’t be mean to me with cultural references. It’s not fair. I’m like, why are you a Zoomer right now? Is this too much?
VN: Yeah. And it’s also that there’s a lot tied in with capitalism too and even this concept of a family unit being a mom, a dad and two children. A son and a daughter –
CP: A family unit is your bus driver. You know what I mean? A family unit in 2019 is your bus driver. It’s the person who sells you alovera at the co-op. This is our family. You see what I’m saying?
VN: Yeah, I mean it shouldn’t even be on two parents to be everything that their children need and to be the only major adult role models in their lives. And I know a lot of queers out there are trying to do, even family of origin differently in more of like a co-parenting amongst groups of people instead of just again, – and it’s, it’s very isolating and it was really important to the development of capitalism in this country that four people live in a house and they’re all dependent on the on the father to go make money and support all of them. And then that just enables all kinds of stuff and abuse and whatnot. So the concept of – okay, there’s other trusted adults that are part of the unit and then growing up again, I think it’s important that is, it should be a choice if you want to spend time with your family of origin or spend holidays or whatever. And again, if your parents are cool and chill, congratulations. And that’s cool, honestly, I think that’s really amazing, but I just think –
CP: That should be on tick-tock, you see what I’m saying? If you love your family, make a tick tock account, immediately. Broadcast that to the nation.
VN: Yeah, but let’s get rid of the obligation aspect.
CP: I agree with you.
VN: No-one owes, that’s not how – love is a choice and you don’t owe anyone and no one owes you. That’s not how that works. So –
CP: Correct. Perfect.
CP: Great. Okay. So our third gay agreement is to prioritize pleasure.
CP: Easy for me to say. I got a Taurus moon. Okay. You know what I’m saying? I could be in this couch all day long, don’t care, pop my legs up. But I think that also, especially when you come from a marginalized identity, so much of how – also top down and bottom up, we’re taught to define ourselves by struggle. We’re taught to define ourselves by strife, by pain, by depression, anxiety, and all of that is defining because it allows us to move through the world in the ways that we do. And it gives us the structures of our coping mechanisms and how we relate to other people. But I think it’s important that throughout all of that to remember to make time to always feel good. I know that self care is now this capitalist nothing word where it means, Oh go spend money and then you’ll feel fine. But pleasure comes from rest. Pleasure comes from listening to yourself. I define pleasure by moving to me cause I’m an extrovert with people and through experiences that I always feel understood by. It’s like when we make sure that we feel good, that’s how we can best understand ourselves, then better understand each other.
VN: Yeah. And I do think it’s hard to, especially for, I mean we’re working artists so it always feels like if you’re taking a day off that you’re, why aren’t you promoing your shit on Instagram or reaching out to a booker or whatever. But I think it’s just really important to have time that is just for rest and just for pleasure and also for play. And just fun. Because I think that’s something I’ve really had to work on and –
CP: Go find an Aries. They love activities. You know what I mean? If you know an Aries, it’s like, let’s fucking jet ski. I’m like, Sick! Yeah. An Aries , a Gemini. You know what I mean? They love a good activity.
VN: Let’s go sail a boat.
CP: Yeah, let’s go sail, for sure.
VN: Not going to name names. Okay. But yeah, I think it’s important. Also my North node is in tourists and if you haven’t gotten to the nodes part of your birth chart, I strongly recommend it.
CP: We’re obsessed with the nodes.
VN: It’s what you’re supposed to be moving toward.
CP: It should be your first question on Tinder. Tell me your node.
CP: Discuss nodes now. It’s good.
VN: But it’s finding ways to kind of indulge in –
CP: Yes, because I think pleasure builds community as much as pain. You know obviously there’s community and pain and collective suffering and collective trauma and how we’ve surpassed something so difficult and epic and debilitating. But I also – , that’s why I like dancing with your friends is the most therapeutic experience in the entire world. There’s also community and committing yourself to feeling really fucking good even though everything around you feels terrible for a set period of time. I just feel like curated hedonism is extremely important. And also I know that so many of us struggle cause it happens to self esteem too. It’s like, Oh, I don’t deserve to feel good. I don’t deserve to ever have pleasure, be confident. It’s like I need to keep moving. But I think that one way to work against that is to make someone else feel good.You know, pleasure is communal. It’s not selfish to feel good and it’s selfless when you put yourself somewhere where you’re operating in joy and then doing something for someone else as a way to remediate that guilt too.
VN: Yeah, the guilt aspect can be hard. I think also even just feeling like I’m lucky I get to have this free time where I indulge in pleasure but it’s not – and I have to – I’ve had to go into that in therapy a lot cause I do get that quite a bit where I feel bad that I’m working on myself and maybe other family members are not and are kind of depressed and miserable. But the guilt doesn’t serve you. I mean that’s how I feel personally. It doesn’t serve me and that it’s a concept, again, coming from the family of origin that enjoying something is somehow coming at someone else’s expense. But that’s just a made up story. Its a made up narrative.
CP: Totally. Yeah. I mean we’re in the business of laughs baby. All I ever want to do is make someone feel good. Right? We’re stand up comedians. That’s what this podcast is. So feeling good can be as literal as that. Knowing that you can make someone laugh through your art. Knowing you can make someone think. It’s like to feel good and to prioritize pleasure, you prioritize yourself because you really have to reckon with how you as this cosmic unit can make other people feel great. That’s what’s so amazing about being alive. It’s like we’re not alone and we all have specific ways that we can facilitate joy. I feel like fucking Oprah. But it’s true. It’s true.
VN: Yeah. Actually, and actually I read an interview recently, I’m forgetting who it was with, but they were asking what are your guilty pleasures? And the person said, I don’t have guilty pleasures. I just have pleasures.
CP: Yeah. Guilty pleasure is crap.
VN: I think that’s cool. I’ve been trying to run with that.
CP: Yeah. Unless it’s Vanderpump rules. And that’s actually a guilty pleasure. I worry that I am guilty. Yeah, I watched it. I’m like, I have guilt. It’s like I have guilt.
VN: And that’s me enjoying Katy Perry songs. I genuinely can’t –
CP: I’ve had guys in the car one too many times. And Val’s like “I’m going to bust into Taylor Swift.” She was like turn it down. And I’m like, “Let the Taytay rise”.
VN: Let the T’s –
CP: There’s no ethical Taylor Swift in capitalism. You know what I mean? It’s like it’s all the same swap Mao. It’s just a different wig. It’s no big deal. Okay. So our fourth gay agreement is to invite healing into your life every day. We’ve been talking about that and that can look like a myriad of things. That can look like talking to a friend you really trust and love. That can look like reaching out to your therapist. That can look like saying no to plans. Saying yes to plans. To me, healing is pretty much exclusively defined by listening to yourself and acting on your needs without worrying what someone else is gonna think of that action.
VN: Yeah. And it’s kind of, I mean, the healing is kind of one of the most monumental things that we can do while we are on this earth experience that we’re having. And I think without kind of going into that and digging into it, it’s really hard work, but it’s also kind of why we’re here and it helps a lot.
CP: I know, apparently.
VN: Yeah. It really tends to help in a lot of different areas of life and it helps other, it helps our community and the world to do it. But it’s kind of something that is moment to moment practice and not I need to fix all of my trauma now.
CP: Yeah. Doesn’t work that way.
VN: It takes time. But I think it’s just an important aspect of life and something that can be done throughout. It’s definitely not something that just has a start and an end point either. That’s something I’ve had to grapple with that it’s not just okay. I’m going to go really hard in the paint on therapy for a year or two and then be like, cool, we’re good to go. Ive tried.
CP: Cause here’s the thing too. Right? Okay. So most of us are millennials, right? For the most part, we’re all millennials here and there and the other, where it’s Generation Z.
VN: Everyone yell out your generation.
CP: No, don’t do that. Boomers make some noise. The greatest generations, I don’t think you’re a hundred. That would be chill. If we had fans over a hundred they would be on this stage. Cause honestly, being a millenial is fucking hard. Like generation Z. They’re all floating and, honestly, I talked to my friends kids who are nine are like, my imaginary friend is non-binary and your floor is dirty. I’m like, Oh my God. They’re transcendental, they don’t have fears. They’re money –
VN: They’re all queer on ticktock.
CP: They’re all gay. They’re all queer on tick tock. They’re like, I’m pansexual. They know what that means. They’re like closets? Never seen one bitch. They are moving at the speed of light and they cannot surpass us. So we need to all be in therapy. Okay. Because we don’t want to end up like baby boomers .
VN: Wait, who pointed out recently millennials are, we’re old now. I’m almost in my late thirties. You have to stop blaming us for everything.
CP: Yeah. There’s that. It’s a big window. Okay. So our fifth gay agreement, and this is one of my favorites, is to learn our queer-story. Yes. That’s so, okay. Here’s why. You know, put a queer, a trans person on your alter who you really love. I was crying today because I was learning about Lou Sullivan, who is this pioneering trans activist and he was one of the very first trans male activists to publicly identify as gay. Or he was like, I’m gay and I’m trans. People were like, huh?
VN: They’re like, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa.
CP: Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa.
VN: Back it up, back it up.
CP: He’s like, yeah, I’m both. And I’m crying. You know what I mean? It’s amazing. We wouldn’t, you know, these things aren’t possible. All the people who came before us who risked everything to allow us to talk about fisting at Town Hall. These things are so real and sacred and we’re not talking, not –
VN: Was not happening when this building was built.
CP: No definitely not. You know, we’re not taught about our queer-story. We’re not taught about our history. We’re taught a very like sterilized, sanitized white supremacists misogynists understanding of this country, our state as minute or as huge, our understanding of the structures and the work and the history that had to take place for all of this to exist is one third, one iota of what it actually is. So going to the gay city library bookstore, reading a memoir, you know, it’s like – and don’t watch the fucking Hollywood movies where Freddie mercury is not gay. That’s crap. You know what I mean? It’s the real nitty gritty of gayness. Cause it’s through these texts there’s something so awe inspiring to know that we’ve lived forever. We’ve always lived forever. Even now they find skeletons of two men fingering each other’s buttholes that are millions of years old and they were just friends.
VN: I hate that shit.
CP: I hate it. It needs to stop!
VN: I hate that. They were just good friends who –
CP: Who are watching the game, and then they died.
VN: They were just good friends for 48 years that shared a home together.
VN: What are you talking about?
CP: And they were holding hands because they were reaching for the same nacho. And that’s why they’re holding hands. It’s not because of gay.
VN: Yeah. I also think the more intergenerational communication and friendship and mentorship, the better. And that does not just apply – I do think that every queer should have an older queer mentor or friend, but also every older queer should have a younger queer mentor because it definitely goes both ways. We all have a lot to learn from each other.
CP: Instead of the Boys and Girls club, it’s the They and Them’s club of Qu-America. So I think that’s our fifth one.
VN: That’s incredible.
CP: Very important. Okay. So this is our bonus sixth. This is our last gay agreement. We were leaving this one as a bonus cause it’s kind of controversial. It’s kind of controversial. But I think maybe we could have a little discourse about it. Slide in some ideas.
VN: Okay. Let us know what you think. But six…….
CP: But six is be friends with thine ex. I think that should be a gay agreement. People don’t agree. People are like, yeah you had us and then you lost us.
VN: I thought people would be into that. Are there any ex lovers in the audience who are now BFF’s?
CP: Ex lovers club?
VN: Want okay, nice.
VN: Well we need to work on this one.
CP: Oh people are raising a glass. Love it. Pointing. We should be friends with thine ex.
VN: I think it’s something cool that queers often do is instead of breaking up and being enemies now is to try to actually foster relationships. And I definitely have queers in my life that are – maybe even that I didn’t date, but maybe we met by just kind of hooking up and smushing and that was how we said hi to each other and then we’re like, Oh, maybe that wasn’t the best match. But then now 10 years later, we’re good friends. I think that’s cool. I think that’s something that is not as common in the culture at large. And I think that sometimes it’s come out of necessity where queers have kind of stuck together.
VN: But also, I think it can be a beautiful thing. Granted, personally, I don’t –
CP: Val’s like, Well I’m not friends with any of mine, so maybe you should.
VN: Personally, none of my other Xs speak to me anymore.
CP: But that’s their problem.
VN: But I’m putting the call out over my podcasts, that I doubt they listened to, you know, if you want to chat –
CP: Hit me up slut.
VN: DM me.
CP: Well I’m not that close with any of mine either. Most of mine are, well, it’s because their Venus’s are in Scorpio.
VN: What about past hookups? Any –
CP: Past hookups for sure, but I would say people – There was this one last person I was seeing pretty seriously. It’s like why would I want to talk to him? He’s was fucking 50 and I thought he looked like Russell Crowe. So I’m not going to talk to him. He’s like, I thought we were going to move to an Island off the coast of Spain? And I’m like “no ugly”. So we don’t talk. But if we were ever future ex lover’s club is an open door to future ex lovers friends club. And that’s a promise baby. Hey, so that’s the show. Thank you all so much. Thank you so much for coming.
VN: Thank you so much.
CP: We want to say thank you. The Town Hall. Thank you to Megan Castillo who asked us to have this town hall.
VN: Thank you Megan.
CP: Thank you so much. They get all of you for coming. Listeners, past, present and future and coming out with us. Let’s go to the cheesecake factory. I’m very serious about that. Um, it’ll be like when you’re done and I want to hear that high school theater relatable. It’s when you all get done with the show and you all go to the Denny’s. That’ll be us and we’re going to go to cheesecake factory, so it’ll be cool and we’ll have some stickers and we’ll hang out.
VN: Yeah. And don’t forget if you don’t already, you can listen to our podcast anywhere podcasts are heard. You can share and subscribe. You can like us on Facebook. Throw us a five star review on iTunes. And –
CP: Follow us on Instagram.
VN: Instagram. Come get a sticker from us. Shout out to all our Xs.
CP: What if we just stay on these couches until they ask us to leave? We might.
VN: We might. It’s cozy up here.
CP: Cool. Thanks for coming.
CP & VN: Byyyyyyyeeeeeeeeeee.
Jini Palmer: Thank you for listening to our Town Hall Seattle arts and culture series. I’m Jini. Our theme music comes from the Seattle based band, EBU and Seattle’s own Barsuk records. A special thanks to our audio engineer, Mo Preventure. Chuck at our new season of town hall, Seattle’s original podcast, “In the Moment”. Each episode, a local Seattle correspondent interviews somebody coming to Town Hall. They get you excited about upcoming events by giving you a behind the scenes look into a presenter’s content, personality and interests. If you like our arts and culture series, listen to our civics and science series as well. For more information, to check out our calendar of events or to support Town Hall, go to our website at townhallseattle.org.